PleasureHorse.com
is facilitating a teaching/learning center, whereby the public may ask Judges questions on a regular basis. This
week's topic is Trail Class
Many thanks to these Judges who took time to help our readers with these VERY insighful Answers!
Pop-up their profiles:
· [Charlie Cole]
· [NancySue Ryan]
· [Bill Kaven]
· [Julie Voge]
*We also asked Nancy Cahill to give her expertise on Trail because of her outstanding video series on the subject (Click here to view), because Nancy is NOT a judge, we felt it was important for her answers to be labeled, so you may distinguish... the others are in mixed order.
Question 1:
Horse A is your western pleasure winner, but in the Trail has several ticks on logs... Horse B has a clean Trail go but would never be your western pleasure winner. Who do you place first?
If the course was an easy course and there was not alot of degree of difficulty, most likely the clean go would win, but when you get to the higher degree of difficulty obsticles where a horse can get +1 manuever scores, there is a good chance the better moving horse might be able to beat the clean horse, a horse that manuevers well and is very broke but not a great mover can still do very well in the trail classes.
By the info given, I am not able to answer your question. The horse
with the biggest score wins. Just because a horse is clean doesn't
mean he is your winner, there are many more factors used to come up
with the manuever score.
First place would be the horse with the most points. If Horse A has ½ point
penalties but is a plus on each maneuver and has a higher score Horse A is the
winner. The same goes for horse B. It does not matter if the horse is a
pleasure horse, hunt seat horse or a barrel horse showing in trail, the horse
with the highest score wins.
It would be extremely hard for the horse with so many penalties to over
come them to beat a horse with a clean go. I have judged in areas though were
the horse with several ticks still wins because it plused on so many
obstacles. In tough competion this would not happen.
(from Nancy Cahill) That is a hard call, because the trail isn't just about movement although
it is very important to have exact gaits. It is possible for the non-pleasure winner to also be the trail winner. If he is clean and goes on a
relatively loose rein, he may garner many pluses. The pleasure horse may
travel great but if he ticks several things, he will minus some of the
maneuvers also. If it's a toss up, then the good mover would be my choice.
Question 2:
In regard to the gate, I thought the purpose was to demonstrate that a horse could open and pass through a gate without 'letting the cows' out. With the rope gate it seems like so many people leave such a wide opening that not only could the cows get out put you could drive a car through the opening. It almost seems like the gate has become a walk-through with a rope. Do you reward the riders that keep a narrow opening?
Yes! As long as the rest of the obstacle is correct. I agree with you
totally.
I judge the gate on a horses' patience and style. It is very difficult to Plus a
gate on my card.
I do reward the riders that do understand the need to keep a narrow gate
opening. Too many exhibitors have forgotten the history of the gate. The
rope gates have replaced solid gates due to the difficulty in finding well made
gates that are not a hazard to use.
I like the gate to be keep close and to be done smoothly and efficiently, but you are right, I dont think rope gates show much skill at all.
(from Nancy Cahill) I don't disagree with your point. It is very hard to plus the rope gate
unless there are some walkovers or backthroughs included at the gate. If
you do the rope gate alone, staying in close is the best you can make it
look. It will be a rarity to amass points there. Most judges will 0 it.
Question 3:
In a novice/amateur trail class, do you penalise a rider for going too slow and pausing between obstacles?
I do like a rider that keeps there horse moving forward through the
pattern. A cautious horse does not mean a horse that stops forward motion. In
the
novice classes I am more forgiving on this as long as it is not extreme.
Just depends on how long the pauses are. If they take their time and do
things correctly, they may not get rewarded for it but i wouldn't
penalize for sure either. Depends on the situation.
If horse exhibitor pauses excessively then I hit the rider a break a gait
penalty at a walk. This is for each class, the rules do not change because of
Class status.
Thats all relative to how the rest of the class does, I would prefer slow and correct over fast and ugly.
(from Nancy Cahill)
I suppose the word "excessive slowness" would make a rider lose points.
Caution between obstacles makes the pattern look good. An example is when
you are going from a lope to a walk obstacle. If your horse comes to a
complete stop before the walkovers or bridge and just stands there, it would
be minused. If he broke to a very slow walk, I would say no penalty.
Question 4:
When doing lope overs (or jog overs), do you like to look straight ahead, or your eye more in front of the pole(s); or where do you train your eye?
I try to watch the whole picture.
I tend to look at the poles but i teach to look ahead. I can usaully see my spot way out but if you can;t see your spot you are better to look ahead and let the horse rate the pole
What I do in the lope over is pick a spot just in front of the log where I
want the lead foot to hit and then look up about three strides back from
there so I do not interfere with the horse at that point. Starting this with a
single log is the way to learn your horse's stride and achieve the proper
timing. I use the same principle with the trot I just pick a leg and use it as
the one to hit the spot. This of course takes alot of practice to perfect.
I am answering from a judges perspective, I do not train trail horses.
(from Nancy Cahill)
Everyone has a different opinion on this I am sure. I look about 4
poles ahead. If you look at the pole you are crossing, you lose sight of
where you are going. When you drive, you don't look at the hood of your
car!
Question 5:
In the Novice and Age group Trail classes does the "older" looking exhibitor have an advantage? I've always heard you should dress like you're older than you are because the judges tend to place for example someone that looks 18 verses someone who appears to be 14 or so.
NO! Each horse/rider team is judged as individuals. It does not matter your age,
your level of competition, your horses' size, color, shape or discipline. The
winner is the winner!
I don't think this is true at all, I have seen several kids that were 13 years old and younger win at the Youth World in Trail , I also remember my friend Heather Ray Williams, she won the Sr Trail at the World Show when she was 9 and 10 years old on her mare Ki Ki Vi.
I'm almost offended by this question. Trail is judged on the horse not
the age of the person showing it!
I like riders to dress for their respective age. I do not like seeing
young girls trying to look much older than they are. Kids are trying to grow up
to fast, enjoy being your age and acting your age and dressing your age.
(from Nancy Cahill) I totally disagree with the questionaire. The trail is judging the horse's performance and I
don't think a judge has the time to evaluate your clothes other than maybe
thinking you are well turned out. (For instance, your hat is creased right,
your clothes and tack are clean). The judge has to score the horse for
maneuvers and penalties on every obstacle. The whole pattern usually takes
no more than 3 minutes so I don't think he cares how old you are or how old
you look.
Question 6:
Please give some General examples of why you would give you a Plus
score on obstacles. I plus horses that are guiding well, they make it look effortless and smooth. Also, an obsticle that is very hard, such as the lope over at last years select world, just surviving that obsticle warranted plus points!
Plus scores take in to account, accuracy, flow, expression, willingness,
movment if it applies to the obstacle, and the amount of assistance on the
rider's part for the overall look of the go.
Easily guided, ears forward, clean, good movement, high degree of diffculty, makes it look easy, and finally a pretty, pretty picture!
A horse approaches obstacle with ears forward and attentive, waiting on subtle
cues from rider, soft rein and is clean on though obstacle.
(from Nancy Cahill) Some general examples of plus maneuvers are as follows:
a) You are loping a set of parallel poles that are raised. The horse
adjusts himself to get
into the poles in perfect stride and with little help from the
rider. He does so cleanly.
b) When walking on the bridge, the horse goes on carefully without
hesitation and with
perfect balance. He looks at the bridge when mounting it with
expression. If there are
walkovers on the bridge, the degree of difficulty is greater. When
he goes over the
poles and bridge with no rubs, that would be a chance to award him.
c) The horse enters into a difficult set of serpentine trots. The
rider barely has to move
his hand to guide the horse around. The horse takes his head and
neck and wraps
around each cone and over the poles cleanly. Another chance to
earn points...
Question 7:
Can you please tell me exactly what it takes to get plus marks in Trail for the following obstacles...
...The Gate: Depends on how difficult the gate is, a simple rope gate usually just get a zero. A gate that has poles to walk over is harder and will get plus points.
/// Easily guided, clean (not hitting standards or plants)
keeping the hole covered, reasonable speed without sacrificing
carefulness, feet not moving when the gate is latched or opened.
/// Quick and tight.
/// Horse waits on exhibitor at all times.
/// (from Nancy) - see answer #2.
...Turn in Box: A horse that turns smoothly with some speed , without the rider dragging it around, would get plus points.
/// Quickness and soft guiding.
/// Horse turn a smooth tight box off a loose rein and is pleasant.
/// Speed, collection of frame, easily guided by rider, loose
rein.
/// (from Nancy) To plus turning in the box, the horse must turn continuously
in rhythmic step. He must show no resistance and not tick the sides of the
box. The horse must enter and exit smoothly and with no ticks.
...Bridge: Interest (looking at the obstacle by lowering the head), ears
forward, carefullness and caution, smooth step on and step off. ///
Again, just a plain ole bridge is hard to plus, but a horse that walks up to the bridge with lots of expression would get plus points from me. The harder the obsticle the more plus points will be given.
/// Expression, sure footedness, willingness.
/// (from Nancy) see her answer #6b
...Simple Walk: Probably the hardest thing to try to plus. /// Again, expression, sure footedness and willingness.
///
Is this an obsticle???
/// (from Nancy) The horse must approach the walkovers at a rate that
suits his step. He should look interested and careful. If the poles
are elevated, there is a bigger degree of difficulty and if they are done
well, maximum points are usually awarded.
...Rain Slicker:
A horse that stands patiently, while the slicker is put on. /// I really have never seen this used in trail at a QH show before. ///Calmness of horse.
/// (from Nancy) Once the rider has ridden up to the slicker, the horse
should hold his ground and not move even one step. He will have to look
like a statue as the rider moves the slicker around the horse.
...Back Throughs:
Accuracy and flow, also amount of guide on rider's part.
/// NO stops and or hesitations.
/// A horse that backs smoothly and responsively. /// Horse not moving on its own, guided exactly by the
rider, shorter narrower steps with the hind feet, speed as long as it
doesn't sacrifice control, patience.
/// (from Nancy) When the horse enters the backthrough, he needs to do
so quietly. Of
course, the horse should not touch the sides of
the back. As he backs,
he should move carefully with enough speed for
the backup to look
businesslike and easily performed. The horse
should not show any
nervousness. The horse that makes it look easy
will be awarded.
...Trot and Lope Overs: Cadence, good movement, taking the right number of strides in straight line jog and lope overs, not getting more than one foot in single strided spaces, collected frame, loose rein. /// Cadenced lope over, not splitting of logs, pleasant horse
guided willfully. /// Accuracy, expression, movement and guide.
/// The harder the lope or trot overs the more likely you are to get plus points.
/// (from Nancy) see my answer on #6a and #6c.
Question 8:
Say you are competing in a large trail class.... how
important is it to have a "good mover" in this class?
Would a "good mover" get a plus score on obstacles
because of his good movement? My horse consistently gets a 0 score (no plus, no minus) and the only reason I can think of is he doesn't get a plus is because he is not as pretty a mover as some of the other horses. Does it take a pretty jogger or pretty loper to earn the plusses?
A good mover doesn't necessarily get you free bonus points, but if your
horse is broke, correct and stylish, a good mover will present a
prettier picture and should be rewarded with plusses.
I think it is hard to plus a bad mover, Tommy Sheets roan horse is certainly not a good mover, but he is tough to beat, that horse guides excellent, has alot of style and speed, when I hear people complain about not doing well because thier horse is a good mover, I say, what about that horse???? I think quiding, manuevring, style and smoothness are mcuh more important that movement.
In my opinion an excellent mover is a plus situation unless the excellent mover
makes mistakes.
There are so many horses in today's trail classes doing outstanding jobs,
movement does play a factor in the score. In today's larger classes it is
difficult for a lesser quaility moving horse to beat a higher quaility mover
when
all other things are the same. This for me is where a plus would be given so
you can separate the clean goes.
(from Nancy Cahill) addressed in question #1.
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