Created by popular demand, PleasureHorse.com
is facilitating a teaching/learning center, whereby the
public may ask Judges questions on a regular basis. This
week the topic is Hunter Under Saddle. Questions are as
follows:
Question 1: What tips can
you share with a rider to help them understand the
best pace for the trot? I can't easily tell if I'm
going too slow or too fast, and I feel like I'm constantly,
yet subtly, correcting my horse's pace. That doesn't
make a very nice picture!
Pace should not be about the speed of your horse... but rather
the pace that makes your horse look its best. You may need to have a
knowledgeable ground person help you with this so you know what looks best. I agree a
horse that changes pace too much in a class looks bad. For me it is about
the best ground covering stride for your horse. Still leaving room for an
extended trot if called for.
I think each horse has a speed it looks best at; find
someone with a good
eye to tell you what pace you should maintain. If
you are constantly
correcting your speed, practice controlling your speed
with your body control, if you sit and slow your
posting your horse should come back to you and soften
it's trot. This will help you to not have to handle
your horse as much and should
encourage a longer slower strided trot.
The pace your horse should trot should suit your horse. Each horse has a different step, length of stride. Determine your horses’ best length by how is feels and have somebody watch you and tell you which pace looks the best.
Please remember, you set the pace. I have to remind my riders to not POST at the horses rate. The horse should open and shorten its stride from your post/seat. It is very easy to post as quickly as your horse trots. Relate your rides to driving a car…you are not going to let the car determine the speed through a school zone.
IF you find your horse trotting too quickly, sit down in the saddle and close your legs and hands equally and bring the horse back to you. Once your horse has come back to the rate you want, release and move forward. If your horse quickens, repeat the slowing of your horse by sitting, closing your legs and hands. It will become a habit for both you and your horse.
Question 2: What do you
count off the most for in HUS... Raising the head
when asked for a gait change or speed?
Raising the head during a transition or speed? I would be more critical of a horse with excessive speed either too slow or too fast.
I think transitions are a critical training point in all horses. Each horse I have ruined has been from forcing transitions, especially into the canter. I drive a lot of people crazy because I do not stress the perfect transition into a canter. I do NOT ever want my horse anticipating a canter departure.
I count off the most for too low of head carriage and behind
the vertical. I also like to see a horse that has alot of scope to it's stride.
Its hard to say what I put more emphasis on... I
put more emphasis on quality
of movement and consistence of performance. If a horse
is racing around, really quick legged, that is offensive
to me, if it continually sticks it head up , thats offensive, but you know, I have judged
shows where these horses were the best... so they were the winners. Did I like them? Nope, but I had to pick a winner
Speed detracts from an overall performance as it can
negatively impact
the true extension of the stride and the rider's use
of the ring. A hunter
is to keep an even & controlled pace through a
course of jumps; this is the
same quality one should expect from a hunter on the
flat. We should
remember that the HUS horse is a precursor to a hunter
over fence
competitor; control and maneuverability are essential.
Question 3: In a HUS Equitation
class, what "memory cues" do you use to remember a
particular competitor's go?
I take short hand notes to help me remember a riders go. The
really good trips just stick in your mind.
I am comfortable with my personal scoring system
utilizing the 0-20
scale along with +'s, -'s, and 0's following the
score. Each exhibitor
is given a score following their pattern work. I
check all scores that
are within a point or two of each other while they
are performing their
rail work and make any necessary adjustments in
the final rankings. A
memory cue is really not needed because i give them
the score i feel
they deserve. If i look at my score sheet and see
an 18 or above
behind their back number I know it was a darn good
go!
In Hunt Seat Equitation, I take notes as I score the rider. I want the rider and horse to be turned out neatly with boots that have seen a wipe rag in the past hour. Spurs must be on correctly, pointing down. Headstalls must have the straps neatly tucked in to the keepers.
As for the rider, I am very critical of leg position and use of hands. It would be more important to me for the rider to have a beautiful seat and leg position than to hit the cone at the exact spot. Execution of the pattern is important, but an equitation rider who is one with his/her horse will win on my card.
Question 4: In a HUS class
what do you use as tie breakers?
If I had a tie breaking decision it would probably be “turn out” of horse and rider. I do not recall a tie off hand, but subconsciously I would go with the horse that has clean/neat presentation.
Maybe you are asking is the trot more important than the canter? Both gaits are very important, I think it is harder to have a horse with the free moving canter which is able to stay in a light frame and maintain cadence.
I have never had a tie in hunter under saddle, there
is always something I
like about one horse over another, might be his ears/expression.
The back-up is used as a tie breaker as well a turn-out of
horse and rider.
Question 5: How important
is size (height) or color of the horse as opposed
to movement?
Size is unimportant to me, I want a really good mover
over size any day. We have had a
congress hunt seat finalist and world champion hunter hack and working
hunter horse that was 15.2. I look for great horses not great size or color.
Movement to me is top priority. I do however want a horse to
fit the Hunter type. Size does factor into that equation.
I do not think size is an issue anymore and/or color. It does not matter; a great horse is a great horse no matter its size or color.
Movement should always be what we are asked to be judging.
I showed a great mare, Baby Oh, back in the (oh, don’t make me say this) 80’s. She was two times World Champion, she was 15’3. She was a great mover who had the stride of a 16’3 horse. I think to she could still compete today as well as the great mare Goddess of Love.
Height of the horse and color are not even considerations
when I am judging the HUS. Shorter horses have been stereotyped
as having
shorter strides but this is definitely not always
the case. Size of
the horses stride length is a big factor though. My
biggest pet peeve
in this class is the 17 hand horse with a 10 foot
stride.
While size is usually the first thing we look for
in any HUS prospect,
the stride and suitability to purpose should be primary.
A 15H horse can
jump or cover ground as well as a 17H horse provided
it has the conformation
and movement that enables it to do so. Height does
not always equal length
of stride. It may be the "picture" we are
looking for insofar as type is
concerned, but it definitely is not the most important
quality in a hunter.
Question 6: Do you prefer
to see horses work on, or off the rail, or a combination
of the two?
I prefer horses to be closer to the rail, when I judge
I stand out in a
corner, this helps control the riders from cutting
the corners.
A hunter shows his best stride in the largest area,
so I prefer to see
hunters toward the OUTER rail as opposed to the inside
track. It is very
unnerving to be standing in position and have forward
moving horses
approaching you 3 or 4 abreast trying to get the inside
track, and it really
does not serve to give the judge a "close up"
view. It is only logical that
the outer track gives you your largest area to show
off your stride.
Regardless of where you are in the arena, you need
to be able to easily
maneuver your horse in traffic without impacting another's
performance.
If a rider can be on the rail I like to see them there. If they
need to get off the rail for a better rail spot then do so.
The rule is approximately 10 feet off the rail. As a judge, I do not like an exhibitor who is constantly circling in the center. This exhibitor should be penalized according to the severity.
As an exhibitor, I am a rail hugger. Think about it, one who uses the rail to their advantage can place the horse almost anywhere in the arena. If an exhibitor riding to the inside is able to maintain my speed on the rail then they are going way too slowly. There is nothing more frustrating than the rider who is riding too close to the rail to pass on the rail and forces the rider to go to the center. And yes if I am on the rail, and you are creeping along off the rail, I will stay on the rail and pass you.
To ride the center of the arena, one must have a horse that is probably moving too slowly. This is a good place to teach your horse not to like other horses, horses will passing you on each side.
One must use the arena to his/her advantage, but I find the rail to usually a nice quiet ride.
Question 7:
Does it impact
your opinion or placing of a horse in a HUS class
if it is banded instead of braided?
I don't even notice bands or braids
I don't have time to even look at the mane for trying
to do a good job
getting the horses lined up the way i like them based
off of movement
and brokenness.
Again, turn out is important. Probably a banded horse would have more Western influence and I would use the English horse over the western moving horse.
At a weekend show, I am not concerned with braiding
vs. banding unless
it is specified in the rules. Many horses cross over
to western classes
without time to band, remove, and braid or vice versa.
At the major shows,
however, hunters should definitely be braided and
western horses banded.
There is usually enough time to make the change if
the daily schedule
demands it. I am a stickler for "proper"
turnout and do prefer hunters to
be braided when the schedule allows.
This would be an area for tie breaker desicions. Either is fine
since many compete in all-around events.
Question 8: Do you feel
headsets in the HUS classes are getting higher? Do
they need to be?
Yes, I finally think the headsets are finally getting where they belong. I cannot stand a horse’s head consistently is below the withers.
I have yet to see the head sets being to high. As
a judge I worry about the
extremes, extremely low headed or extremely high headed,
a horse that is
somewhere in the middle and has a good performance
is going to do well.
I do feel like the headsets are getting higher. As they should,
you want a HUS to be thought of as a horse that could take a fence.
Head sets SHOULD be more in keeping with a horse's
natural conformation
and ability to approach a jump. We should be looking
at these horses for
their suitability over a jump course. Also, the stride
can be improved when
you move the center of gravity back a bit by allowing
the shoulders to truly
elevate which gives hindquarters more time and space
to gain full impulsion.
The "look" of a hunter is more relaxed and
rounded than that of a jumper;
both find it necessary to negotiate the jumps, but
the hunter does so with
style and controlled pace, while the jumper's style
is in his ability to get
up and over safely, cleanly, and quickly.
Question 9: Is AQHA "suggesting"
to judges that you should be looking for, and pinning,
well more forward-moving horses in HUS?
AQHA has stressed that the horses
should have a forward moving gate, not a
western lope. For awhile we saw spur broke looking
horses winning in the HUS.
I want a horse that is a really good mover and soft
on the ground, that looks
like it could take a jump with a slight change in
head carriage
"Forward Freely" is the name of an old book
on riding and it is still
true today in any discipline. Again, going back to
the intent of the HUS
class to reward those who are suitable to be a hunter,
forward impulsion is
certainly essential to negotiate jumps and cover ground.
HUS horses should already be exhibiting proper forward motion.
I will penelize a horse for being too slow.
Free forward moving horses should always be placed over the slow short gaited horses. It is so cool when one has a great striding trot and can then canter forward but move slowly. It is not the speed, its the slowness of the legs. One can carry a ground covering stride and not be running. I do not want the 17’1 horse loping up and down in the center of the arena to be my winner.
Question 10: Please explain
the meaning of "light contact" and how the reins should
be held? Is a straight line from bit to elbow preferred
over a slight drape in the reins? Also, how heavily
do you penalize a horse for being slightly behind
the vertical?
Light contact is just that, the horse should lightly hold your hand contact. I want the horse to be responsive enough that I can flex my wrist and get a response. The horse should be responding to the rider’s seat/legs rather than your hands.
A horse who is engaged through its back is going to use his neck and arc it, if this horse is doing this because he is such a great mover than I am not going to penalize the horse.
A horse that is forcibly behind the bit because the rider is hand-riding the horse will be penalized heavily.
I like to see a horse slightly on the bit, nose vertical
or slightly in front
of it, I am really turned off by loose reins and behind
the vertical. Every
horse is different, Acadamosby Award always had a slight
drape in his reins,
but his neck carriage and expression were excellent,
when he jumped he jumped
with a slight loop in the rein, he was just that soft
and giving in the bridle.
I have yet to watch a working hunter go with a slight
drape in the rein!
I feel it's real hard for the horse to be engaged
and have hindquarter
impulsion if there isn't a soft feel or soft contact
with the mouth and
the horse isn't being driven up to the bit. Definitely
dislike the
drape. Behind the vertical is to be penalized depending
on severity,
ie. for one stride, for twenty strides and for the
entire class. All
would be weighted differently.
The reins should make a straight line from the riders hands to
the horses mouth. No Drape! Behind the vertical will be penalized.
Light contact in the truest sense is just that, but
reins should always
be at a length that allows for quick contact when
necessary. Drape does not
equate to light contact - you would never jump on
a drape, and it is not
useful in the hunt setting. Lightness is best reflected
in the
self-carriage of the hunter - a soft relaxed neck
and total impulsion into
the bit. A horse slightly behind vertical can be given
credit if he is
moving in a relaxed frame, but being behind the vertical
usually suggests a
stiffening across the topline and is indicative of
anything but relaxation.
The rider should be working to release this horse's
front end & ribcage to
allow him to drive INTO the bit rather than work behind
it. The line from
the elbow to the bit is a good measure of the contact
you should have, but
reins can be relaxed on the flat with the ability
to "shorten up" as
approaching a fence would demand.
Some added thoughts from Nancy Sue Ryan to 'All",
I think this question/answer system is a great idea, my opinions are mine and please do not be offended by anything I have written...
I would like to explain some showing/judging philosophies I have:
The class usually last about 7 to 10 minutes. The judge probably doesn’t judge/study your horse more than 20 seconds the entire class.
You are an actress/actor for 7-10 minutes, make it look easy.
Why do you think you can train and change your horse in that 8 minute class when you have been training the horse for 12 months? Ride what you have!
Think the way your horse thinks! If the horse learns to dread the show pen as a place for punishment, they are quickly going to be soured of the arena.
Most importantly:
The judge must first find the horses that “Fit the Rule Criteria”, then place the horses accordingly. “Make it easy for the judge to use you first!” Give the judge a chance to use you first because you are following the rules!
Here are the Rules:
The public may not point specific questions to a certain judge. This is all about JUDGING in the broader sense.
Judges may choose to post any number of answers each week, or as few as one. We realize this takes time. Any/ALL input they care to share comes with our utmost respect for their involvement.
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Each judge that helps us may email his/her profile to be posted in our Reference Bio's in the Header.
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